Get a lawyer! If you make a mistake on this issue it may cost you a lot more later than the cost of getting a lawyer now!

During my mini-saga of attempting to sell with agent representation, and later selling on my own, I never once felt bad about asking questions on the net. I just felt that the Realtors and others just liked to help people or they wouldn't be providing free info on the net. Later on I realized it was more than just that for many. It was used as a way of possibly generating leads for Realtors and agents. However, oddly enough there were a few, and one in particular, that gave probably the best answers that didn't even have contact info. You had to assume that he and they were just trying to be helpful when responding.
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Hi Rockinblu, my comment was made because many many people who come to on line forums such as this, Craigs List, Zillow, bash Realtors. Many others express that they want to do it themselves to save money, but then want us to help them . I do like helping people, but even those of us who like helping people are happy if there is some type of return. I have done CMAs for estates so that one sibling can purchase from the others, I have given neighbors who were FSBO, advice. Although I like being helpful, I do hope that they will tell some of their friends about what a knowledgeable Realtor I am, so that my altruism will result in putting some food on my table. I the case of my FSBO neighbors (2) I listed and sold one house and now have the other listed. In the case of the siblings, I made nothing except good will, and hope that they will refer me to their friends. No matter how much we like helping people, it isn’t how we pay our bills.

Rockinblu:I was never once scolded or shamed for doing a FSBO and asking opinions. Even on this Realtor based board it seems to me that there are some that seem to enjoy helping answer posters' questions regardless of the poster's situation. One could wonder that if FSBOs didn't ask questions, what value would this forum offer to the public? The auotomatic answers could be "What does your agent say?" and "Talk to the managing broker."

There's certainly nothing in it for Dunes, Dp2, Jefferson, or myself to provide input. Some people really do enjoy helping others while expecting nothing in return, even though some like to take shots at us non-pros for doing so . An occasional thank you from the poster, a TU, or BA vote for us is nice though, but a Lamborghini would be better. :)

JR: Well, speaking personally, there’s nothing in it for me either, since I’m anonymous! As for value, I bring a lot of value to the table in every transaction I handle.

"I do it because I have an overinflated opinion of my knowledge and I enjoy the TU/best answers because they give some illusion of self-worth "
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I read your profile. The above is bs. You obviously like helping people, and have displayed your intelligence enough to gain respect from even the pros.

My motive is to help people avoid what I experienced, and sort of pay back a debt I feel I owe from the help I received on the internet. I was helped and if possible, I would like to help others the same way.

Rockinblu I believe that's the longest comment I've seen you make and I gave you a TU...

Already discovered today that Dunes ryhmes with Doom and I do not resonate with optimism. Perhaps it is time for a detailed public discussion on why Pros answer questions on Trulia. (It seems some would suggest it's the kindness of the profession) The motivation for Pros to be here is kindness?
I do it because I have an overinflated opinion of my knowledge and I enjoy the TU/best answers because they give some illusion of self-worth to my Non-Pro life.

We get surly with the best, Dunes : )

-automatic-

Forgot to spellcheck. The point I was trying to clumsily make was that I don't think any of us posting questions want to put agents out. We don't even give it a thought as to how it is perceived. However, the agents that feel we are taking advantage of them certainly can choose not to answer. The ones that reply should be thanked, and not simply ignored.

J R & Bill,

During my mini-saga of attempting to sell with agent representation, and later selling on my own, I never once felt bad about asking questions on the net. I just felt that the Realtors and others just liked to help people or they wouldn't be providing free info on the net. Later on I realized it was more than just that for many. It was used as a way of possibly generating leads for Realtors and agents. However, oddly enough there were a few, and one in particular, that gave probably the best answers that didn't even have contact info. You had to assume that he and they were just trying to be helpful when responding.

I was never once scolded or shamed for doing a FSBO and asking opinions. Even on this Realtor based board it seems to me that there are some that seem to enjoy helping answer posters' questions regardless of the poster's situation. One could wonder that if FSBOs didn't ask questions, what value would this forum offer to the public? The auotomatic answers could be "What does your agent say?" and "Talk to the managing broker."

There's certainly nothing in it for Dunes, Dp2, Jefferson, or myself to provide input. Some people really do enjoy helping others while expecting nothing in return, even though some like to take shots at us non-pros for doing so . An occasional thank you from the poster, a TU, or BA vote for us is nice though, but a Lamborghini would be better. :)

Hey, for all the posters who removed questions without so much as a TU, to all those that responded thank you.

For all those that removed questions without so much as a TU, right hand in air, and you figure out what extremity is extended.

Susan, my attorney charged me $500. The associated commissions, had my agent not fired me, would have been 10k or more.

BTW Bab, Bill's spelling ( sinerio ) may have a subliminal message in it as to how strongly he feels about a FSBO doing what he might interpret as freeloading. :)

Ask an attorney, they only charge $200 an hour.

scenario

Sorry, I just can't help it.

It’s played out over and over here, Bill. They don’t need us, yet they come on here and ask us questions about the selling process. They don’t want to pay us, but they want us to answer those questions for free.

This is an interesting sinerio.......

See what is really happening....here's an individual that doesn't want to be taken advantage of by the real estate profession.........

Who is by virtue of what they are doing....is taking advantate of the kindness of the profession.

Janice, do you feel guilty????

Hi Nancy,

Janice sold her house in Spring of last year and moved to another city.

Naima

Janice,
Have you sold your home yet? Are you willing to work with a Real Estate Agent that has buyers? I have been an agent since 1991 and have closed many transactions in which the sellers have kept their minerals. As one agent noted it is a common issue in Johnson County. You could ask 5 different agents and get 5 different answers. Licenced agents are to use the TAR form as I stated before. If you do not address minerals they do convey to the buyer BUT who wants to get sued by not having a written agreement out in the open. Remember always disclose!!! Where is your home and how much do you want?

Janice,
I am a Real Estate Agent in Burleson and yes there is a form pertaining to mineral. A TAR form presented to us to use regarding minerals. It became in effect 12-15-08.
Nancy
Real Estate Pro
Burleson, TX

LOL, no sex change, just an observation. :)

Thank you for the information, Aaron. I even thank you, Gary, for your response because it was well thought out and an attempt to be helpful. As for JR - I think our good ol' "Dallas" always-ready-with-an-insult bad boy must have moved to New York City! And maybe, judging from the picture, he's even had a sex change. LOL.

You ask a lot of questions for someone who doesn't need a realtor or an attorney. :)

Please review TREC's response to your question under the PDF file located in the Web References below. As much as your past experiences tell you that an attorney would not be worthwhile, the future lost revenue from a future mineral lease might be worth the trouble. Please pay special attention to section 3 - "Real estate broker and salespersons are not attorneys and may not engage in the unauthorized practive of law."

Please don't get me wrong, but your answer simply points out even more why you should hire a pro.

“To Gary in Pampa: I laughed a little in appreciation when I read your response, but please don't think realtors are the only ones who "don't get no respect", and are asked for free advice.”

As a fellow professional you must get a kick out of the following question....

Hey Janice,

You know, I have the trust fund and the mutual fund and the 4 investment properties. (two of which still show a loss) the company car for our land holdings corp. is going to be replaced this year and I am about to get the house from my inheritance. So which form should I use...the 1040 or .....you know…......because you know I want to make sure that I do this right so that I don't pay to many taxes.....

Certainly you must know a really good attorney who could use some help with taxes this year.

As a pilot I take friends up all of the time, after a few minutes they all say the same thing, man that looks easy so I turn the plane over to them and of course they fly around for a few minutes. When we get back on the ground, I normally toss them the keys and tell them to take it for a spin….they look at me like I am crazy….kind of how I am looking at you right now…..

I wish you luck and you did get some good answers here, but there is so much at stake. It could all go up in a puff of smoke...or natural gas if you will.

Gary De Pury
Broker Owner
Bay Vista Realty
Director, Florida Association of REALTORS®
Chairman, Communications Committee

I beg your pardon, Kathy, I DID locate where the reservation of mineral interests is listed in the Farm & Ranch contract - 2F. Thanks.

"IF it is over 10 acres, you should have used a farm/ranch contract. This particular form has the appropriate areas to address just this."
Kathy, I read the farm & ranch TREC contract, and I do not see anywhere mineral rights are mentioned(?) Am I missing something?

Kathy, the house for sale has one acre. The standard TREC form is appropriate. And you're right, TEXAS is a whole 'nother country! LOL.

FIRST OF ALL, what size property are we talking about? IF it is over 10 acres, you should have used a farm/ranch contract. This particular for has the appropriate areas to address just this. I live & work in Wise County of North Texas, DEEP in the heart of the Barnett Shale. On this particular form where it is addressed you should place the wording such as "MAINTAIN ALL RIGHTS AS CURRENTLY RECORDED IN COURT DEEDS & RECORDS". MAKE SURE that your title company is aware of this status as well, because IF it is not addressed at the time of closing, the rights will transfer with the sale.
Just a side not, IF this sale falls through, you should REALLY think about using a Realtor, if for nothing else to cover all these basis with you and PROTECT YOU! That's what we are here for. Sometimes you can even find a Realtor that will do the final paperwork for you for a much reduced fee.

ELVIS, TEXAS is a WHOLE 'nother country. About 90% or more of the land owners in the area that I am, DO NOT own the mineral rights, only surface rights.

To Gary in Pampa: I laughed a little in appreciation when I read your response, but please don't think realtors are the only ones who "don't get no respect", and are asked for free advice. I'm an accountant, and around tax time, I have all kinds of friends come out of the woodwork! Yes, we're all supposed to become tax experts every April, but as we all know, it ain't that easy.

Please accept my apologies if I've tromped on any toes here in this forum. I'm sure there are many good compitent knowledgable realtors around. It has just been my luck to not run into one personally. To be done right, I'm sure you can't just "dabble" in real estate. It's a profession like any other, with some good at it and some not so good.

Yes to Naima, the previous owner transferred mineral rights. I'm not sure they even knew it! When we purchased the property, Barnett Shale was not active, and no one was concerned about mineral rights much, at least not in residential areas here in Texas (as you probably already know working in DFW). It was not mentioned specifically in the contract, either. What matters is the language of the Deed itself. I've worked in the oil & gas industry for most of my life, and I'm ashamed to say I didn't even know we owned the mineral rights until we were contacted by the party that leased those rights.

Unfortunately, we may lose our current sale because of this. Although I was upfront about this from the beginning of our negotiations, when they saw it in black and white, they want to "think about it" before signing the contract. I even gave them the addendum advising them to see a lawyer, but we'll see. It ain't over 'til it's over, thank goodness. I hate to jinx an offer in this lousy market, but, oh well, another will come along. Luckily, we don't HAVE to sell right now. That gives us a certain advantage, I guess.

I appreciate all the feedback. Maybe we'll ALL learn something!

Janice, when you purchased the property, did the previous owner transfer the mineral rights to you?

Another point, yes, the mineral rights we're discussing probably would pertain to the Barnett Shale play. The Pampa real estate agent is worng about shale not being able to produce without strip mining. It's being done as we speak all over Texas. There would be absolutely NO impact on the Buyer except possibly a little temporary noisy drilling a mile or so away from the address, not a major impediment in my opinion.

I seemed to have stirred up some animosity from the realtor group! LOL. That certainly wasn't my intention. I'm sorry, but my experience with real estate agents AND attorneys is about the same ..... bad. I have sold three other houses without a realtor, and done well. My experience in buying two houses WITH a realtor made me question the whole group, but hopefully I just didn't choose well(?) And before you comment on that, yes, I'm aware the realtor represents the seller, but that wouldn't explain my experience. I'm sure there must be some compitent realtors out there, but haven't met one yet.

I did confirm that TREC has left all of us hanging out to dry where this matter is concerned. There should be a Yes/No place to check on the sales contract that would clarify this. Instead, TREC basically ignores the issue and provides no guidance whatsoever.

Another point, we have already leased the mineral rights to our little acre of ground. We could anticipate a return of around $6K per year for however long, too much to just unthinkingly give away.

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to reply, but I am not convinced that a realtor could or would provide service worth $10K on my house. Everyone SAYS there is no price fixing in realtor fees, but just try and find less than 6%! I paid to have my house listed on MLS, of course, because the realtors have about got that market sewn up, and I would even pay 3% if a realtor brought me a qualified buyer, but to sign an "exclusive" 6% with a realtor, not a chance.

Sorry, I was out working on one of my rentals all day.

So Hunka Hunka Burnin Questions.....Here is the deal....There are four kinds of oil.
Crude....That is what we use currently
Sands....That is what is in Canada and is most likely our next form of energy
Shale.....The largest deposit in the world is in the US, but it is almost worthless.
Lorenzo’s...That was a Great movie

OK...Crude.....relatively easy to extract. Drill a hole, pump salt water into the ground beneath it and up it comes. Easy to process and making people very wealthy.

Sands...Well, oil sands have been around for years. The Native Indians used to waterproof their canoes by rubbing them on the oil sands in the Alberta Canada area. But we have just now figured out how to extract it for an amount that makes it profitable.

Shale....Basically a soft rock...like clay, but clay has water in it and Oil Shale has OIL in it. Difficult to extract and the expectations are 50 to 75 years before we know how to get usable oil from it at a feasible price. But half of Texas is in uproar because there are a bunch of folks who have figured out how to make money off of the prospect of shale.

Here is the thing. You don’t keep mineral rights for Shale. The only way to get Shale from the ground is to remove the ground. Mineral rights are for pumping out what is beneath the ground leaving the ground intact. Crude and especially light sweet crude like in the mid east can be pumped. Shale must be strip mined. It is ugly and leaves huge quarries and pits.

Don't get me wrong....one day Shale is going to be worth something....but this cowboy "ain't" paying taxes on rights for 40 or 50 years just in case....

Again, if you want the mineral rights so that you might be worth a million bucks someday....spend a thousand bucks now....quit being so cheap... and sure don't hire SUM US DUM REALATATERS, CUZ WE DONT NO NUTTIN.

Gary De Pury
Broker-Owner
Bay Vista Realty & Investments, Inc.
Chairman, Communications Committee
Director, Florida Association of Realtors.

You are right to want to check into keeping your mineral rights. A lot of these people here at Trulia are not aware of what is happening in Johnson and Tarrant County with the Barnet Shale.

The real estate agent you talked with was not completely right. The Texas Real Estate Commission is refusing to help clear this up so we are not getting any guidance here. You will need to pay an attorney, you will need to address it in your paperwork (any listing paperwork and in any contract) and you will need to address it at the title company. If you do it wrong you will mess this up for yourself and you might have an idea from the newspapers how much we are talking about. Go see an attorney!

You need to contact a board certified real estate attorney for the appropriate clause.

King...She is in Texas. It is quite common in Texas.
But what I think is funny is that the only reason to keep the mineral rights in Texas is for the potential value of the oil in the ground.

Here is why it is funny...Janice wants to do this on the cheap, without an attorney and without a Realtor which could cost her a few thousand. But if she screws it up, and Oil is ever discovered in Burleson, which is about 160 miles from the East Texas Oil Field (roughly 6 million barrels of proven reserves) her rights would be worth 100's of thousands if not close to 1 million depending on her footprint.

Janice, I am sorry, but the forest is full of trees...if you catch my drift...you are making a horrible decision. Hire an attorney and do this thing right.

Geezzzz..

Oh, yea, I do know a little something about oil too. More so in the Mid East, but if you put all of my posts together, you will start to see a pattern of who I am....


Gary De Pury
Broker-Owner
Bay Vista Realty & Investments, Inc.
Chairman, Communications Committee
Director, Florida Association of REALTORS®

You're selling your home without a realtor cause you don't need our help, and now you are coming here and asking realtors for help? @@

So you're anticipating that the buyer will purchase your home from you, but allow you to keep the mineral rights, (thereby allowing you to potentially erect a derrick and drill beneath his home for minerals??).

And why are you presuming they'd allow you to do that?

This happens to me constantly. I have a buddy who has/is a PHD, compared to my various degrees (all Military Intelligence and Foreign Language associated), well, I am not a PHD so I am just a Bumbling idiot to him. All kidding aside, we are friends and he would trust me with anything, but doesn't think REALTORS are worth anything.

So he recently put his Florida home on the market with a $6.00 sign. He has had zero traffic and zero prospects. I started to feel sorry for him because, well our wives are friends and I am getting the inside scoop on what he isn't getting. Simply because he won't ask for help. So I secretly put the house on about 10 of my websites and all of a sudden he has a buyer on the line.

Now he has come to me and asked about forms. I told him that I would provide the forms and then help him fill them out. He made the following statement, I think I better Have my attorney (Traffic law practice) fill them out so that they are done right. uhhh....OK.....sure.....

So then the Attorney called me, As my name is on the bottom. Asked for an explanation of some of the clauses. (huh????) I said, you know what, I will just drop off completed forms at your office....will that work. (easier for me in the long run and I know they are done right)

So now, my buddy, has an attorney bill for 750.00 (yea I asked) that he is very happy with because he said the following....

"You would have charged me 6%" on the 400K sale. I only paid $750.00 to my Attorney. Plus I agreed to lower the price a little since I wasn’t using a Realtor.

He won't tell me his net...But the wife network has......Poor guy and his damn pride....At what point do you think I should hand him the copy of the contract that I handed his attorney.....???

You need to make sure that the correct wording is in the purchase contract. I would recommend having an attornety that practices real estate law review your contract if you are selling the property without its full bundle of rights.